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Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
80
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Posted - 2013.01.24 02:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Simple: because the existence of non-consensual PvP means that there is no need for consensual PvP. The mechanics for the former means you can have the latter at any time you want already.
To use Malc's new favourite word: consensual PvP is a wedge proposal GÇö you ask for a single unnecessary thing to be added, and then for the unnecessary:ness to expand to include some other portion that seems related; and then expand it further; and further; and then you suggest that, hey, doesn't this really cover all the bases? So why do we need this antiquated non-consensual system?
The core problem is that all suggestion for consensual fights rest on the presumption that engaging in one would lock you out of all other combat, and that simply cannot happen in EVE GÇö there can be no safe havens. As a result, any such system becomes meaningless: why agree to a fight when all the PvP is still non-consensual? Why have an arena for two teams, when nothing can be allowed to restrict others to enter that arena and interfere at will?
Sorry, Tippia. I only decided to drop this on you because you are annoying. Non-consensual PvP may hve been a part of the game since the 1890's, when you started playing, but was it ever a good idea? Sometimes I wonder.
Most players DO NOT consent to non-consensual PvP when they log in. They spend the whole time they are logged in hoping that no 1%ers find them.
I, for one, would be a lot happier with consensual PvP being formalized. Let the 1%ers go out and blow each other up. I can't see a downside. You serve no real purpose in the game, and you definitely don't have an impact on the economy, no matter what you think. |

Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
80
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Posted - 2013.01.24 03:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
FourierTransformer wrote:Tbh It appears most of nullsec has adopted consensual pvp.
"Wargames" online.
I've lost more ships in Null than I have in Hi. Most were Industrials and definitely not consensual.
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Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
83
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Posted - 2013.01.24 20:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
Bane Necran wrote:Roime wrote:The value people get from PVP is only made possible by the presence of real risk, uncontrollable events. But through planning ahead and picking your fights to make sure you're going to win, things become very controlled and lack risk.
I agree. Fly a Tengu into a hatchery. Drop a yellow can in front of someone 5 hours old and Label it 'Goodies'. That certainly maximizes your chances. But he's a human being, too. What sense of satisfaction does he get?
Oh. I forgot. It's all about you.
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Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
89
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Posted - 2013.01.25 21:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
Roime wrote:Quote:I, for one, would be a lot happier with consensual PvP being formalized. Let the 1%ers go out and blow each other up. I can't see a downside. You serve no real purpose in the game, and you definitely don't have an impact on the economy, no matter what you think. What impact do you think you have on the economy 
Oh, I have a very small impact on the economy. See, I'm one of the ones who produces things for ship construction and POS refueling. I know it is a pretty weird thing to do, but I enjoy it a lot more than blowing things up.
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Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
89
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Posted - 2013.01.25 21:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
Nyla Skin wrote:Whats there to be afraid of? It just turns everything boring. Without threat, there is no excitement.
Let me go back to my famous 'jump off the roof' example.
Jumping off a roof is vaguely threatening, and might provide excitement, but, for some reason, I don't do it very often.
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Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
89
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Posted - 2013.01.25 21:46:00 -
[6] - Quote
Octoven wrote:Wishing to fight someone in an honorable fashion is NOT being a carebear. Not wanting to fight period and stay docked up when challenged is lol
Honorable? You're saying shooting fish in a barrel is honorable? Throwing a hand grenade into a class of first graders is honorable? Glad I didn't grow up where you did.
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Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
89
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Posted - 2013.01.25 22:21:00 -
[7] - Quote
Sura Sadiva wrote:Not Politically Correct wrote: Oh, I have a very small impact on the economy. See, I'm one of the ones who produces things for ship construction and POS refueling. I know it is a pretty weird thing to do, but I enjoy it a lot more than blowing things up.
Cool. And don't you see as if your gameplay is viable and you can enjoy building things is just because someone else blow those things up and need to rebuy? Is not abstract theory, has be experimented: In Ultima Online (another game known for his open brutal PvP setting and in deepth crafting system and player driven economy) at some point they decided to make everyone happy to split the game world in two: Trammel (only consensual PvP) and Fellucca (open PvP) This totally destroyed the game economy, most of the players found more convenient to stay in the "consensual PvP" world also if the open PvP one was far more ritch as resources. Soon everyone farmed safe till becoming dirti ritch, had everything and there was no more need of crafting, the igame economy collapsed under the inflaction and the game died fast.
I don't see that happening at all. That's why I disagree with all this stuff about PvP being essential to the economy.
Eliminate most of the PvPers and you eliminate many of the bots. Mineral prices go up. Use the minerals, and PI to build POSes. Mine 'moon goo'. Explore. Expand. Even without PvPers mining in 0.0 is dangerous. Lost ships = production opportunities.
But I don't even advocate getting rid of all PvPers. Let them play around with themselves. Once again, Lost ships = production opportunities. The ones who are really rabid will stay.
But look at it another way. What good are they? If we weren't here, they wouldn't be either.
Now I have studied economics. Probably more than most. I don't think this economy has ANY need for PvPers, but they do have some role in the appeal of the game. Fine. Like I said, let them play with themselves. Because a big problem is that the ones who aren't good enough to get easy kills turn into hatchery poachers, and gankers. Personally, I can't see any reason, in game or out, for catering to these people. |

Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
89
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Posted - 2013.01.25 22:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
Theodoric Darkwind wrote:WoW is that way -------------->
non-consensual pvp has always been a part of EVE.
nerfing the sandbox aspect of EVE by making PvP consensual would remove the one thing that makes EVE different.
For me, WOW is NO WAY.
Just because something has been done a particular way for a thousand years, doesn't mean it was ever the right way to do it.
So go out and run over your neighbor's kid. That should keep you amused for a few minutes.
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Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
89
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Posted - 2013.01.25 22:43:00 -
[9] - Quote
Theodoric Darkwind wrote: You can already have a consensual fight if you want, just ask someone for an arranged 1v1. If they honor it great, you got your consensual PvP, if they dont honor it, welcome to EVE where people can and will stab you in the back.
If I wanted to get stabbed in the back, I would just go outside, not play Eve for the virtual version. |

Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
89
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Posted - 2013.01.25 23:26:00 -
[10] - Quote
Sura Sadiva wrote:Not Politically Correct wrote: But look at it another way. What good are they? If we weren't here, they wouldn't be either.
Yes, of course you're right, it's creation/destruction cycle. However I don't see too many post complaint on the forum against people building things. So maybe "the others" understand the sinergy (and the game logic) better. And nobody post on the forum demanding to change industry in a way so that "consent" from PvPers to build should be required. You can do your game freely and do not need any consent to it, why don't want to allow the same for the others?
Could it possibly be because gankers interfere with doing constructive things? Do you think? |

Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
89
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Posted - 2013.01.26 00:34:00 -
[11] - Quote
Sarah Schneider Few things... [list wrote:
There has been no correlation whatsoever between PVPer and bots, infact, pure miners/industrialists are more likely to bot than your average null/lowsec PVPer. So unless your statement is backed up by CCP statistics, it has the same weight as random rambling.
Without PVPers nowhere is dangerous, unless you're dying to rats, which is stupid.
You're underestimating the importance of "ships" in Eve. Ships are the center of Eve's economy, most of the things produced are directly or indirectly related to ships in some fashion. Industrialists makes profit from building ships and ship related items solely because ships kept being blown up everywhere in Eve. Nullsec contributes over 50% of these losses and PVP contributes over 90% of these losses. This keeps demand high, especially due to the fact that most ships being used in null comes from hisec. So no, you take PVPers away, the market will crash.
If you're referring to "we" and "they" as industrialist carebears (those who doesn't/refuses to do PVP at all) and PVPers, then you're dead wrong. You see, while Eve needs balance between both creation and destruction (industry and combat), player-wise, if viewed by mentality, Eve can lose it's industrialist carebears just fine and the economy will correct itself in time due to the fact that PVPers do or can do industrial stuff if needed (some already does) but not the other way around (I can't count how many times I've seen carebears stated that they rather quit than do PVP). So again, no, you take PVPers away, the market will crash.
[/list]
First, you should have started this with 'IMHO' unless you have information that the rest of us don't have.
The rest? Same as the first.
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Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
89
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Posted - 2013.01.26 00:39:00 -
[12] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:I can't believe people are still feeding the troll.
Why are you still reading this? You are more of a troll than anyone else. You don't have an opinion. You don't state any facts, or even theories.
You are posting for no other reason than to illicit a response, and you don't seem to care what it is.
I post my posts because they are what I believe. I may be wrong, but no one has given any proof that I am.
This is supposed to be one of the sources of input for CSM, who seem to be ignoring what goes on here with spectacular dignity and grace.
It's a FORUM. Look it up. A place to express opinions. NOT a place to try to polish your E-peen.
EDIT: Sorry, that was gratuitous, but I get cranky late at night. |

Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
89
|
Posted - 2013.01.26 04:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Not Politically Correct wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:I can't believe people are still feeding the troll. Why are you still reading this? You are more of a troll than anyone else. You don't have an opinion. You don't state any facts, or even theories. You are posting for no other reason than to illicit a response, and you don't seem to care what it is. I post my posts because they are what I believe. I may be wrong, but no one has given any proof that I am. This is supposed to be one of the sources of input for CSM, who seem to be ignoring what goes on here with spectacular dignity and grace. It's a FORUM. Look it up. A place to express opinions. NOT a place to try to polish your E-peen. EDIT: Sorry, that was gratuitous, but I get cranky late at night. When you need to take a dump, please use the WC, not the EvE Online forums.
Same to you. At least I think I am providing meaningful content. You just seem to have a gas problem. :) |
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